Select a passage from the final reading section that you think is interesting and important.
Pick one that you have a lot to say about! Type the passage, cite it, and then go ahead and discuss it like crazy.
Be sure to sign your name and please feel free to comment on your classmates' posts. Please don't repeat the same passage as anyone else.
“He thought he oughtn’t to eat any more, but then he thought I am hungry. No, I am not hungry, I am hungry, whatever that means…What must I do not to be hungry?...He tried hard to recapture how it felt when he was hungry after a day of fishing and was sizzling lake bass over an open fire and boiling coffee in a tin can. All around his head were the sharp-pointed stars” (182).
ReplyDeleteAt this point in the story, Roy left the party that Memo threw for the Knights before their final game against the Pirates. He went down to the grill room in the lobby and ordered six hamburgers, but he couldn’t decide if he was hungry or not. Then he thought back to another day where he felt hungry after fishing and cooking lake bass over a fire.
Before this passage, on page 173, Roy fantasized about living with Memo and their future child in a house. He imagined himself going out fishing and then bringing back the fish he caught which Memo would cook and then they would eat it. After that, on page 174, he determined that the only way for his desires to die down would be if he always had her. Then he realized that the life he imagined did not fit the type of person Memo was; it seemed to fit Iris better.
In this quote, Roy couldn’t decide if he was hungry or not. His hunger might actually represent Memo in some way. He thought that his need to eat would be satisfied if he just ate more, which is reminiscent of how he said his desires would die down if he always had Memo. However, his hunger never went away, and it just stayed with him no matter how much he ate. With Memo, he never seems to be completely satisfied with her either. He doesn’t like how she acts sometimes and hopes that she would be more supportive to him. If he always had Memo, his desires probably wouldn’t disappear and would instead remain there for as long as he was with her. In addition to being unsatisfied, he would most likely be plagued with other problems as well because of Memo’s bad luck. An example is that after sleeping with Memo in the night, Roy is hospitalized. This further supports the idea that being with Memo might be a bad decision for him.
Roy attempted to decide whether he was hungry or not, which might actually mean that he was deciding between being with Memo or not. If he decided that he was hungry, then he would choose to be with Memo, even though his desires would never be completely satisfied. However, if he decided that he was not hungry, then that could actually be his decision to be with Iris. There really was nothing wrong with her and he did not have that same “hunger” for her that he had for Memo, but he just couldn’t get over the fact that she was indeed a grandmother. So, he decided he should not be with Iris, which is represented by Roy’s decision to eat the hamburgers, even if they were not completely satisfying. He chose Memo over Iris, although it seemed as if he would have been happier with Iris.
3.14 Jonathan Tsai 1592...
First Post!
"Roy chopped a third foul at the dwarf. (...) The ball spun like a shot at Otto, struck hi hard skull with a thud, and was deflected upward. It caught the lady in the face, and to the crowd's horror, she went soundlessly down" (217).
ReplyDeleteAt this time in The Natural, Roy is feeling angry and frustrated at himself and Memo because he agreed to throw the game away for money to entice Memo to marry him, and is doubting her devotion. He takes out his anger at her by hitting Otto Zipp, who, like Memo, was a huge fan of Bump's and can not seem to let him go.
To emphasize Roy's mistake, Malamud has the foul deflect off Otto and hit Iris, a symbol of fertility and the woman Roy should want to be with. Otto represents a Memo who is not untouchable, and it makes sense that Roy's anger at her ends up hurting Iris, because Roy's misguided affection for Memo is what keeps him away from Iris.
It makes sense that Iris would go down quietly, because she seems to take the pain in life without complaint. She had to deal with being date raped and then becoming a teenage mother. This is just one more way that she contrasts with Memo, who makes excuses as to why she won't be with Roy and who complains about money and how she doesn't want tot have to work.
The fact that Iris being hit is described as being horrifying to the crowd because she is good and full of life. The crowd recognizes this and what it means for Roy. In a way it was necessary for here to be hit so Roy would realize how much they need each other.
- Emily Van Laarhoven
P.S.: I really like your post, John!
Thanks Emily! I like you post too! Lots of great analysis and very interesting to read!
ReplyDelete-Jon T.
I agree with both of you! Lots of excellent insights.
ReplyDelete-LC
“He watched the fire. The flames sank low. When they had just about been sucked into the ashes he crept toward her and took her in his arms. Her breasts beat like hearts against him” (156).
ReplyDeleteThis passage shows the vast differences between Roy’s two loves, Iris Lemon and Memo Paris. Iris is a goddess figure, contrasting Memo, the temptress. Already a grandmother at the age of thirty-three, Iris is clearly the better choice for Roy. Just as she has already given life to her daughter, she gives Roy life too. With Iris, Roy is happy, plays well, and feels like he can open up to her like no one else. Memo only saps his energy and leaves him feeling hungry, both literally and figuratively, as previously mentioned by Jon in his great post.
This passage is similar to when Roy and Memo were together, right before the car crash. Both take place near the water and both involve romantic encounters. In the Roy/Memo tryst however, the mood is uncomfortable and Roy is left feeling empty and also with the sinking feeling that Memo may have hit someone with her car. The incident mentioned in this passage has a much different feel, as Roy is comfortable with Iris, so much so that he even tells her about getting shot by Harriet Bird.
The main difference between these two happenings is the description of both Iris’ and Memo’s er…chest areas. In the first, Memo calls her breast “sick,” which shows that Memo is not a nurturing, mother-figure like Iris, but a temptress who can only be bad news for Roy. In this passage, Iris’ breasts “beat like hearts” against Roy. This shows that Iris is a life-giver, because a heart is what pumps blood through a person’s body and therefore gives them life. This again reinforces the differences between Iris, the goddess figure, and Memo, the temptress, and unfortunately despite these clear differences, Roy, in his infinite childishness, chooses Memo, and his life is subsequently worse off for it.
- Susanna Sigler
P.S. Great posts, Emily and Jon!
"The hours that followed were the most terrifying of his life (more so than fifteen years ago). He lived in the thought of death...Yet all the while he fanatically fought the doctor's revelation, wrestled it every waking second, though something in him said the old boy with the white mustache was right. He felt he had for years suspected something wrong, and this was it... Me. I. Roy Hobbs forever out of the game? Inconceivable," (188-9).
ReplyDeleteRoy has just found out that his health is rapidly deteriorating and therefore the doctors advise him to end his baseball career after this season. As he lays and rests for days in his hospital room after his accident at the party, Roy refuses to see anyone or do anything. All he wishes to do is think about his future and everything that he will be forced to miss out on.
After hearing the news from the doctor, Roy goes into a state of denial. Malamud writes, "Yet all the while he fanatically fought the doctor's revelation, wrestled it every waking second..." This proves that Roy honestly cares about his baseball career so much that he cannot bear the thought of losing the one steady, constant aspect of his life: his career. Malamud even goes on to say that the thought of never being able to play baseball again is "inconceivable" in Roy's mind.
Even though Roy is initially astonished by the doctor's horrible news, it does seem as though he knew it was coming intuitively. The passage explains that he always felt something like this would arise and interrupt his career, most likely because he already had an accident 15 years prior that halted him drastically. Therefore, in a way Roy knew that the doctor's prediction was accurate, but while his mind told him the reality of the situation, his heart did not want to accept the fact that he would need to give up one of the few things he truly loved in life.
This passage overall proves to be a paradox since Roy knows that he will never be able to play baseball after the playoff game, though he tries to convince himself that the information he was given about his health was false. This shows that baseball truly is Roy's passion and is the one thing he can count on, especially since his relationships with women prove to be very complicated and unstable. Once he is told he can no longer play, Roy feels lost and is not sure what the future will now hold for him.
~Andrea Bacon
"We have two lives, Roy, the life we learn with and the life we live with after that. Suffering is what brings us toward happiness"(152).
ReplyDeleteThis passage was said by Iris who knows from experience that everyone must learn from suffering. As a young girl of only fifteen, Iris had a baby. She had to suffer through many years and found it was difficult to keep up with the costs of having a child. As she grew older she found that she loved her baby and found happiness with her. Roys suffering came when he was shot by Harriet and again when he was in his slump. Roy said his slump ended because of Iris.
Roy told Iris he was tried of suffering. Iris replied that suffering teaches people to want the right things. She found that she wanted her baby after all and that Roy would find to want the right things. Roy wanted a life of happiness as everyone wants. At the time Roy thought he wanted Memo, but he finds later that that she is not the right thing to want. The right thing could be becoming a father as he soon finds out he will be.
During this time Iris is shown to be a goddess-like character. She shows light and life. She is wise from her past experiences and knows that Roy too must learn from his past. His past is the life he must learn from. He trusted many temptresses, such as Harriet and eventually Memo truned out to be the worst. By almost having intercourse with her he remember the hard times of his past and became ill.
This was also a blessing because this gave him a second chance with Iris. By hitting her during the gave with the Pirate he found that he was going to be the father of her child. The thought of being a father filled him with happiness. This is what the second part of life, the life after the one you learn with, feels like. Roy then feels like everything will be okay.
This all changes when he gets the thirty-five thousand dollars from the Judge. Roy feels that the Judge must pay for what he has done to him. He goes in the Judge's appartment and attacks him and Gus. He then calls Memo a whore, but does not hurt her. He finds that she is not actually what he wants anymore. Roy then leaves the appartment.
He has learned through this that he is not done suffering, that he is still in the first part of life. " He thought, I never did learn anything out of my past life, now I have to suffer again" (230).
~ Emily Spiewak
P.S. I really liked Susanna, Emily, Andrea and John's posts. Great job guys!
"Iris felt she had been mistaken to come. He seemed so big and bulky next to her, and close up looked disappointingly different from what she had expected. In street clothes he gained a little and lost more, a warriors quality he showed in his uniform. Now he looked like any big muscled mechanic or bartender on his night off. Whatever difference could it have made to her that this particular one had slumped? She was amazed at her sentimentality," (146).
ReplyDeleteIn this passage, Iris seems disappointed with Roy and that he is not the shining Baseball deity conceived and made to be by the media and word of mouth. Roy is dressed in simple street clothes, seemingly unfitting for a sports star. Iris realizes Roy is not all he's cracked up to be, yet she keeps her cool.
Roy is not too happy with Iris, thinking she would be perhaps more shapely and lovely like Memo, he seems to regret meeting with her and is not pleased. Constant thoughts of Memo invade his mind, a rather mean thing to think at the time as he should be focusing on Iris. It goes to show Roy has a somewhat obsessive nature when it comes to love as he is still clinging to Memo while on another date. Still, he finds Iris attractive. Roy's way of love is always strange, he has odd encounters with all these women and it always ends in his misfortune. Iris however is a character he should want to meet and get to know as she is very nice. Roy just seems to attract the wrong people who always bring his downfall, and repel off people of aid and support, a classic trait of a hero on his journey having to make the right choice. Roy now begins to see this as a good sign in his slump because he's finally with someone who isn't crazy and they're having a good time riding around and enjoying the scenery.
Every hero to endure something he or she dislikes sooner or later and it almost always ends up benefiting them in the long-run. Because of Iris and his time he spends with her she develops into a support character for him, a greatly needed asset for any hero. Although Roys blind and awkward views on women stop him from realizing many truths, such as Iris being a lovely person and great deal of support, it gives him character and gets him into the sticky situations that make a story worthwhile. To me, this is the perfect example of a flaw giving the character personality and life like attributes, a hard thing to accomplish in writing and ignored by many modern authors.
-Samuel Brown
"He had an odd feeling he was down on his hands and knees searching for something he couldn't find" (181).
ReplyDeleteAt the buffet, where Memo continually feeds Roy, in an attempt to sabotage him; Roy had this feeling that he was empty. There was "something" that he could not find, whether it was this abnormal experience with Memo, trying to remember memories of his mother, or the forcing of food down his gullet, Roy was empty. I take this to mean two different things. Roy feels a sense of regret at this moment in his life, and this also foreshadows regretful events in Roy’s life. Also, Roy deep-down knows that being with Memo is a mistake.
Firstly, the feeling of regret that Roy feels can be affected by factors occurring in his life right now. He is regretful that he did not finish Iris’s letter to him. He also stated that he was not going to respond to her letter, foreshadowing the baseball game. This quote foreshadowed the event that occurred during the playoff game with Iris, she being impregnated by Roy, and Roy not responding to her. Immediately Roy felt that he made a mistake by not maintaining a connection with Iris as he courted Memo. When Roy failed to win the playoff game for Iris, and their son, he felt regret. As well as, when he was exploited by the Press for the event that transpired between him and the Judge. He was regretful that he threw the game, for money. Overall this quote foreshadows the feeling of regret throughout Roy’s life.
Secondly, the empty feeling in his life is also represented by the fact that Memo was not for Roy. He was “missing” Iris, while he was seeing Memo. The women in Roy’s life are very symbolic to his career and motives. Memo represents temptation, because Roy enjoys the pleasures with women. Iris, on the other hand, represents success in Roy’s career. She is the sole person who got Roy out of his slump. Iris was positive for Roy’s life, but he left her to be with Memo, who eventually shot him, relating Memo and Harriet, as both tempters in Roy’s life. The temptresses in Roy’s life lead him to fatigue and depression. Roy was “searching” for the right woman, and that was Iris.
~JJ Courtney
PS: I really liked Emily, Emily, and Jon’s post, great job guys!
“Roy felt like crying, yet he told her-the first one he ever had. ‘I was just a kid and I got shot by this batty dame on the night before my tryout, and after that I just couldn’t get started again. I lost my confidence and everything I did flopped’” (151)
ReplyDeleteIn this scene, Roy is caught, for his first time ever, letting out his secret story of his baseball career. Roy is seen here talking to Iris, almost crying as he ponders over his past. This shows that Roy thought negatively of his past and wishes that he had a second chance, well a second chance that had come sooner in life. Not so many years later. Because Iris is the first person Roy has ever told his story too, it shows that he must truly trust her and admire her greatly. He describes the women that did this to him as a “batty dame”, calling her an insane female. Roy also talks about how this one night event not only ended his chances for his tryout with the Chicago Cubs the next day way back when, but ended his chances for many years of his life. The shot to his chest was not only a physical damage, but an emotional damage as well, creating hardships in other aspects of his life. “I lost my confidence and everything I did flopped” is how Roy describes it to Iris. That one scene that took place in the hotel room many years ago, greatly lowered his chances of fulfilling his dream of becoming a famous ball player.
~Nolan Lescalleet
PS: I'm not going to choose sides and just say that everybody's quotes are fantastic and unique in their own ways. Stellar job guys.
Excellent posts all!
ReplyDeleteAndrea, your passage makes me think: does Roy love the game or does he love the fame?
Emily S,- Do you think he hasn't really learned and he will have to suffer again? Or does his stating this show that he HAS learned? hmmm.
LC
"After many amused years at the expense of the laughingstock Knights, a scorching pennant fever blew through the city. Everywhere people were bent close to their radios or stretching their necks in bars to have a look at the miracle boys (so named by sportswriters from all over the U.S. who now crammed into the once deserted press boxes)whose every move aroused their fanatic supporters to a frenzy of excitemnet which whirled out of them in concentric rings around the figure of Roy Hobbs..." (162)
ReplyDeleteThis passage shows that for many years, the Knights were just a joke and no one cared enough to go to their games. Then, within short time, the people couldn't get enough of the Knights. Upon the arrival of Roy Hobbs, the entire dynamic of the team changed. Roy was the catalyst the Knights needed. With the help of Roy Hobbs, the Knights and the entire city changed it's attitude toward the game of baseball. Also, people outside the city are starting to show great interest in the Knights as well. Roy and the Knights have attracted sportswriters from across the country to pack the press boxes. All this shows the impact that one man (and his lucky bat) can do for a team, a city, and the entire sport of baseball.
Everyone has had a great post so far with a lot of intersting insight. Keep up the good work!
-Kevin Manning
"'Experience makes good people better.' She was staring at the lake. 'How does it do that?' "Through their suffering.''i had enough of that,' he said in disgust. 'We have two lives Roy, the life we learn with and the life we live with after that. Suffering is what brings us toward happiness."
ReplyDeleteThis is a crucial point in the story for Roy, even though Roy doesn't understand until the very end of the book. After taking Iris Lemon to the lake, the two engage in a deeply emotional conversation even though the two have only met recently. Iris explains to Roy about the suffering they both endured in their life.
Iris had a child at an incredibly early age. She struggled with finances and sacrificing her time for her childs. As Both of them grew she realized that she loves her child and that they find happiness together. She learned her in "first life" and lived happily then on.
Roy who struggled after he was shot by Harriet, but fifteen years later got a second chance at baseball, and achieved that status he had a shot at before. Iris teaches Roy that to be happy in this life he has to learn from his suffering.
When the Judge offers Roy the thirty five thousand dollars; everything changes for Roy. He contemplates whether to throw the game and be worthy enough for Memo(Roys Temptress), or he can win the game and earn the fame he has always wanted, while also slowly killing himself due to his sickness. When Roy strikes Iris for a second time and learns that he is going to be a father he believes everything will turn out alright.
When Roy loses the game, he confronts the Judge, Gus and Memo and blames them for his suffering, pressuring him to become something he's not. Roy realizes he still hasn't "learned" from his first life and that now he has to suffer again.
Quote from page (152)
Trey Taglieri
I love this part of your quote Kevin: "...whirled out of them in concentric rings around the figure of Roy Hobbs..." It's as if he's the sun they orbit around or something. I also notice that Roy's often associated with circles...
ReplyDelete=LC
“Roy frowned. Talk of that kind of dough gave him a belly ache. But Memo was right. It had to be something big or it wouldn’t pay back enough. And if it was a big company he could take it in a little easy, to protect his health, without anybody kicking, he pondered where to get another twenty-five thousand, and it had to be before the start of the next baseball season because as soon as everybody saw he wasn’t playing, it wouldn’t be easy to cash in on his name. … He thought of other means to earn some money fast-selling the story of his life to the papers, barnstorming a bit this fall and winter, not too strenuously. But neither of these things added up to much-not twenty five grand.”(p.195)
ReplyDeleteI found this passage a very important passage in the book that clearly showed the change in Roy as a character. In the beginning of the passage, Roy talks about all the money he needs, talking up to fifty thousand. This is a pivotal point because when Roy started playing for the Knights, he was content with his low salary. He loved baseball and played because he loved it but now, wanted to play for the money.
Then Roy states that he can take it easy when he starts off with a big company and not give his full effort. But, in the beginning of Roy’s career, Roy gave full effort the whole time. Even when Sammy, the man that helped him get to where he was died, Roy still gave his full effort.
But the greatest change from the beginning of Roy’s career to the end was his self dignity. At the beginning of Roy’s career, he didn’t tell anyone where he grew up, or about his life. It was his personal business that he didn’t share with the outside world. But now, Roy states, “He thought of other means to earn some money fast-selling the story of his life to the papers…” Roy’s life was no longer as important and the fame and money changed his self pride.
Though I do believe fame can change anyone, Roy’s love for baseball was replaced with his love for women, money and fame. He no longer played the game he learned with his father but instead played the game of business to live the lavish life everyone dreams of.
~Corrine Ahrabi-Nejad~
When Roy looked into the boy's eyes he wanted to say it wasn't but couldn't, and he lifted his hands to his face and wept many bitter tears (231).
ReplyDeleteThis sentence on page 231 of The Natural describes Roy’s emotions when he first discovers that the whole world knows about is past. All he can do is cry about the truth, even though he wishes with all of his being that it was just faulty reporting, by the part of Max Mercy. Roy Hobbs's secret was finally revealed to the entire world, something he kept hidden for about fifteen years (and something that he hopefully would keep locked away until the day he died). Every one of his fans and even those who were not knew of his tragedies. How he was shot at the tender age of nineteen by the psychotic athlete serial murder Harriet Bird. His past had been locked away for years until the slimy sports journalist Max Mercy uncovered it. Along with Roy not wanting to believe this fact, his followers would rather not either. They young boy who threw Roy a paper containing the article pleaded with the baseball star for the accusations not to be true, but Roy could not deny the truth from is past. Roy’s life has finally come full circle, from the secret that started years prior to the discovery of the fact.
Everyone nice analysis of their passages, keep up the good work!
Kristen Gagne
"With his heart whamming against his ribs he looked around but could recognize no direction in the darkness let alone discover the right one. It was cold and he shivered. Only, the payoff of it was that the mutt found him and led him out of the woods. That was good out of good." (201)
ReplyDeleteIt seems as though this reoccuring theme of darkness and loneliness looms over Roy's entire life. This seemingly insignificant story, from when he was just a boy, creates a guideline for his life story. The reader sees repeatedly throughout the book, things that correspond with the story of Roy and his mutt. The first prominent correspondence is when Roy is shot by Harriet Bird, lining up quite well with the moment in the story when Roy loses his dog. This is where all the problems start, everything that seemed to be so perfect fell apart. When Roy starts to play professional baseball, it is similar to the part in the story when he was wondering in the woods alone, but there was still light. The woods begin to darken in Roy's life when he meets Memo, a symbol of a perminant longing and loneliness. He is lost without her, and yet the more he gets of her, the more lost he is. Finally there comes the point in Roy's life (the point he is at when he thinks of this story) when he is put in the hospital, more frightened than he had ever been in his entire life. He was in complete darkness, with no one, just as he was in the woods. And yet, with all hope lost at the end of this story, the little mutt comes back, just as Iris does, and leads him back into light. Its funny how little things in your life can turn out to be just the opposite.
~Hannah
"The memory of all was not unpleasant, but what for the love of mud had made her take him for a sucker who would be interested in a grandmother? He found it terrifying to think of, and although she was a nice enough girl, it had changed her in his mind from Iris to lemon. To do her justice he concentrated on her good looks and the pleasures of her body but when her kid's kid came to mind, despite grandma's age of only thirty-three, that was asking too much and spoiled the appetizing part of her. It was simple enough to him: if he got serious with her it could only lead to one thing-him being a grandfather." (159)
ReplyDeleteAs a reader this part in the story is frustrating to read. After Iris and Roy's date you hope that Roy is making the right decision by going after a "good" woman unlike Memo and Harriet. Only revealed in this passage Roy has lost interest in her because she is a grandmother.
As pointed out by Pop, Roy tends to go for "bad balls", and in this situation he does just that. When it comes to woman he chooses the ones that lead to his suffering, while ignoring Iris who could bring him the happiness and success he desires. Roy fails to see the good in Iris being a grandmother. She has brought life to the world and with her experience she understands what Roy needs to be and could have possibly been the key to his happiness. Iris supported Roy in his slump while Memo avoided him stating that she "can't stand being around people who are blue".
When Roy is with Iris he is happy and able to open up to her, by telling her about what happened when he got shot by Harriet, but when he is with Memo bad things take place like the food poisoning and hitting the boy which causes his slump. Roy is blind to the fact that he is choosing the woman that brings him harm. His love for Memo is not only self-destructing but causes him to ignore the good people that come into his life.
By revealing that Iris is a grandmother, he immediately considers it as a flaw that causes him to stop pursuing her. He then goes back to thinking about Memo which continues to bring forth bad events. This makes you wonder what he would have become and how successful he could have been if he had accepted the fact that she was a grandmother and continued to spend time with her and not had been so shallow. If he had forgotten about Memo the story most likely would have turned out much differently. Roy's tragic flaw is unmistakably the fact that he goes after "bad balls", not only in the literal sense when he goes after bad balls at the plate, but in his love life as well.
Haley Hughes
"His heart whammed like a wheezing steam engine, his head felt nailed to a pole, his eardrums throbbed as if he were listening to the bottom of the sea, and his arms hung like dead weights. It was with the greatest effort that he raised Wonderboy. As he was slowly getting set, he sneaked a cautious glance up at the tower, and it did not exactly surprise him that Memo, still in black, was standing at the window next to the Judge, blankly gazing down at him" (212)
ReplyDeleteThis passage stood out to me for the way it described Roy's feelings. Though he did take the offer from the Judge to throw the game, this passage obviously shows his true feelings. The pressure to let down his team and win Memo is over whelming and this shows that he felt the agreement was the wrong one. If he had thought that making sure he lost the game was a good thing, he would not have felt as though his head was nailed to a pole. Yes, he would feel nervous but not this much. This passage makes it evident that Roy feels guilt, like he should.
I think this also foreshadows future event of his actual attempt to win. This overwhelming emotional pain and pressure he feels leads him to the right decision to actually try. It's also important that the entire book was based around Roy's countless attempts to get money and Memo. But once he has accomplished this, it doesn't settle right with him. He soon comes to realize he's been fighting for the wrong things.
This moment is almost like the turning point in Roy's perspective. Though he has not fully come to realize it, within the next few pages these feelings open his eyes to what he really needs.
Stephanie Pierce
"The hamburgers looked like six dead birds. He took up the first one and gobbled it down. It was warm but dry. No more dead birds, he thought...Not without ketchup."
ReplyDeleteIn this part of the story, Roy has left the party and ordered six hamburgers for himself. Strangley all he can note about them is that they taste like dead birds. This is interesting because there are many places in this story that inckude dead birds. Dead birds represent his continous dissatisfaction with everything he does. The first instance of this is the first hit Roy makes in the book .
"...the ball plumetted to the center of the field like a dead bird"(74).
Roy believes that if he hits the balls and sets records, he will be satisfied but they are all 'dead birds'. Similarly, he feels that there is something missing from the hamburgers. This is shown the the quote that says "It was warm but dry". The first meaning of this quote would be that it gave him a superficial satisfaction, but like the hitting, it is not what he is actually looking for. It he word 'dry' also makes a strong reference to the very beginning of the story, where Pop mentions that he wanted to be a farmer, and that the season had been dry. This means that the hamburgers represent his hitting or success in baseball.
"You know, Roy, I lately been thinking that a whole lot of people are like him, and for one reason or the other their lives will go the same way all the time, without them getting what they want, no matter what." (210).
ReplyDeleteThis quote is spoken by Pop while he is talking to Roy before the last game. The "him" he is referring to is a baseball player who had nothing but bad luck every time he tried to play, and Pop is saying that from his experience, he thinks many people are like this. They try their best and give their all to something, but no matter how hard they try there is something that keeps them from succeeding.
This is talking a lot about how you cannot escape your fate (which seems to be a recurring theme this year). Though Pop is referring to Mulligan (the ballplayer) and himself, what he says can also be applied to Roy. Roy knew that he had what it takes to be successful in baseball and he was determined to be the best in the game. He gave it all he had, but his fate prevented him from being able to achieve his goals. First he was shot by Harriet, then he had his big slump, and then he was too weak to be able to play well in the most important game of his life, all of which were circumstances that were beyond his control. Roy cannot escape his fate that, no matter how hard he tries, he is not destined to be successful in baseball. The role that fate plays in Roy's story contributes to the idea that he is a tragic hero because having some element of an inescapable fate is one of the most important qualities of the tragic hero.
~Katie Chute
P.S. I love the variety of passages everyone chose. There are some I definitely would not have thought of and I like reading your insight on them.
"Roy caught the pitcher's eye. His own had blood in them. Youngberry shuddered. He threw—a bad ball—but the batter leaped at it. He struck out with a roar" (227).
ReplyDeleteIn this quote, Roy strikes out for the last time of his baseball career. It is significant not only because it marks the end of his career in the sport, but because the descriptions within the quote show a distinct change from the beginning of the book to the end. At the beginning of the book, Roy's movements were very fluid, very natural, the ball always kind of came to him. But in this quote, he "leaped" at the ball; his technique has gone down the tubes, as they say. He is no longer a natural by the end of the book.
The quote, and its context also bear a strange resemblance to an instance earlier in the book, where Roy struck out the baseball great "the Whammer." When Roy struck out the Whammer, he was about the same age as Youngberry, who pitches against him in his final game, and the Whammer about the same age as he is in his final game. This likeness between the two events shows how although at one point in your life you may be the best, you won't always be. The cycle keeps moving, and sometimes, no matter how much you want it, you just can't win.
-James Massucco
"It seemed perfectly natural for Iris to be waiting for him, with her shoes off to ease her feet, here on the park grass... She had been gazing at the stars through her window, unaware just when they dissolved into summer rain, although she remembered opening a brown eye in time to see the two-pronged lightning plunge through a cloud and spread its running fire in all directions. And though she was sometimes afraid she would be hurt by it she did not get up to shut the window but watch the writhing flame roll across the sky until it disappeared over the horizon." (143).
ReplyDeleteAfter reading the third part of "The Natural", I find this passage is the most significant because it introduces the rest of the book so well while also making a connection to the title of the book and the course of Roy's(and everyones) journey throughout the story. The first sentence of the passage is the sentence that introduces the entire section. It is simple yet it means so much. The "perfectly natural" part alludes to the title. At first glance the title of the novel seems to mean that baseball comes easily to Roy and that he has the talent naturally. However, this book has had many allusions to the grand scheme of life, and the title is one of them. Roy has goals and plans for himself that have been interrupted and put on hold, as have everyone else in their lives. The title of the book also means that life always goes on, naturally disregarding the plans and expectations people have. Life goes on as long as you keep living, and it happens simply the way it does, and Malamud shows in this book how no one, no matter how talented or rich or wise they may be, can control what happens in their lives. It is a natural process that will never be able to be altered because of man.
The second part of the passage, that has to do with Iris watching the stars, shows also that things happen naturally, and often for a reason. Iris never shuts the window, which symbolizes not losing hope in her life and shutting herself out, because she knows that as long as the window is open, things would continue, unaffected by humans, naturally. Although there are fears in life (the lightning), life will take its intended (and natural) course so there really is nothing to be afraid of. Iris seems to realize this as she looks into her memories before she goes to meet Roy. She realizes that in life people do not often end up with those that they think they will, and she accepts this fact while waiting for Roy. She learns that whatever happens will be natural, and she cannot control where she ends up and neither can he.
--Kaitlyn Labich
First off, a few comments aside...
ReplyDelete*Ms. Coppens – Funny you say that! That is what my passage is about…
** Jon, I just want to say… I love how you put the digits of Pi in your signature :D
***And now that I think of it, I comments for almost everyone on what I like, so I'm gonna go with Nolan's diplomatic response and just say I think everyone's is really unique and made me see something I hadn't seen before!
*** I also love how we're making positive comments on each other's posts :) I should add that to my list of things that make me happy lol
Ok, so the passage…
“Sometimes as he watched the ball soar, it seemed to him all circles, and he was mystified at his devotion to hacking at it, for he had never really liked the sight of a circle. They got you nowhere but to the place you were to begin with” (163).
Undeniably, Roy is not lucky with circles. Roy basically had two lives. There was the life in which he was nineteen and full of potential, and the life in which he was thirty-four, and again, full of potential! Both times, though, the potential for a long and successful career was tragically stopped – the first time by Harriet Bird, and the second, because of his lust for Memo which causes him to become sick.
I also find it funny that in Roy’s first life, he struck out the Whammer who was about thirty-five. Then, Roy’s second life basically came full circle because he was struck out at the same age the Whammer was by a boy, Herman Youngberry, who is the same age that Roy was when he struck the Whammer out.
In addition, Roy’s love interests are critical to point out here. In Roy’s first life, his desire for Harriet Bird ultimately leads to his downfall because the Whammer was Bird’s original target. Because Roy was stubborn and pursued Bird, he was the one to be shot, and this caused his downfall. When he rose back up again and pursued a professional career in baseball, he was faced with another love interest, Memo, who was more or less the same type of girl as Bird. They were both beautiful, and once again, Roy’s desire for Memo and persistent pursuit after her essentially enervated him.
It seems that there are many parallels in his “two lives.” Roy eventually reflects upon the experience of his past life, and thinks, “I never did learn anything out of my past life, now I have to suffer again” (230). It is implied that Roy is referring to what Iris Lemon told him. She said, “We gave two lives, Roy, the life we learn with and the life we live with after that. Suffering is what brings us toward happiness” (152). Roy obviously did not learn that his downfall was caused by his desire for the wrong type of women who act as the temptresses, causing Roy to stray from his true path.
The circularity of his life also connects with the mono-myth hero journey. It’s interesting because Roy didn’t traditionally follow the hero’s journey – he is more of a tragic hero. As for Roy’s tests and ordeals, well, he had many of those but I wouldn’t necessarily say he passed them triumphantly. The problem is not he was not consistent. Sometimes, he would do great, and hit homer after homer, but his life was filled with ups and downs. He ultimately did not pass his last ordeal which was to win the game so that the Knights could go on to play at the World Series. He definitely had his experiences with temptresses, and a meeting with the goddess, Iris Lemon. The main problem is that Roy did not conquer what plagued him, his inconsistency and desire for temptresses, and he was not able to achieve his ultimate boon which I believe was the pennant for Pop Fischer. He eventually came full circle, and if there were to be another novel written about Roy Hobbs, I’m sure that it could start from the beginning of the cycle again.
6535 ~ Priscilla Sena ~ 8979
^ more digits of Pi :)
and wow 11:54 - just made it. Phew!